One of the more enriching aspects of South By Southwest is being able to reconnect with artists. This year HiphopKR was gifted another sit-down conversation with hip-hop duo XXX. In the two years between their SXSW debut and their latest album, Second Language, Kim Ximya and FRNK have shown an incredible amount of growth musically and in their respective creative visions. To be able to come back after a couple years to assess where they are was truly a treat.
We Meet Again
With a room all to ourselves for the next hour, we certainly have time to reconnect. However, as we’ve learned in the past, an hour passes by rather quickly. So without too much preamble we begin.
“Welcome back!” Allie begins. “In your past interviews with HiphopKR and other outlets, you spoke about your method and how you create your music. Has anything changed in your working style between those interviews and now?”
One thing you have to know about Ximya: He’s very deliberate, both in art and how he answers his questions. The care he takes in answering this first question is testament to the fact. He takes a few moments, then says, “Yeah, when we made the first EP, we were talking a lot and discussing how the song’s gonna go and everything. But for this project, we haven’t actually talked about how the song’s gonna be. It was simple, making the track. I make vocals, and then he,” — he points to FRNK — “chops it up, does what he does. There was not much talking.”
Musical Evolution
It’s a method that seems to work for them this time around. It does beg the question how much of that was calculated and how much of it was purely the organic process of two artists bringing their styles together.
“For XXX,” Ximya starts, “since it’s one rapper and one producer, for me I think every group that’s one rapper and one producer, the producer doesn’t get to shine more than the rapper. For XXX, we thought the producer should be more upfront with every project. Which makes the song producing process, FRNK starts the song, FRNK ends the song. I was more like a sample,” he says with a chuckle.
Indeed, their sound has evolved to ensure that FRNK’s penchant for the aurally outlandish gets as much shine as Ximya’s desire to shake the rage from his chest. Allie senses the growth in that sort of process. While in their past work perhaps highlighting FRNK wasn’t as much of a forethought, with Language, people can hear something of an artistic evolution. Transformation from attempting to mesh two styles together to now allowing those styles to flourish.
This brings out the proud sister in me. When I first met the duo there was an eager greenness to them that translated to music that was vicious but at times disjointed in vision. Language is a different beast all together. There’s a more straightforward approach to the sound. Music focused on a singular feeling and grounded in impeccable musicality. Obviously two years allow an artist to accumulate a whole new set of musical inspirations. While FRNK continues to err on the side of Clarence Clarity and Ximya still delivers with the bite and snarl of a Schoolboy Q, something in Language suggests wider musical scope.
“For the lyrics, it was all about how the first EP…” He takes a few moments to choose his words, a rueful grin brightening his features with memories of frustration. After a few seconds he continues. “The first was not… how we thought it would be. It didn’t… Yeah, so it was purely anger. I didn’t watch any movies or listen to any music. It was just life… my anger.”
Who We Really Are
It lends credence to a description of their music as “dark hip-hop with a frenetic edge.” Ximya first tries out the definition, then laughs at its meaning. “Yeah, that works,” he says with an amused smile. Much of that seemingly frenzied madness comes from a very focused bit of internal chaos. However, these are all the opinions of writers. How does he describe the sound himself?
It takes him a moment. After all, defining what one does away from the actual creative process takes a bit of self-reflection. After a few seconds he says, “I would say the best… post… hip-hop… Yeah.” Another laugh resounds around the table, echoing off the walls of the boardroom.
Through past conversations, XXX have established that there’s a purpose and direction for their sound. But it does make one wonder, as Allie wonders, if there was a dedicated plan or if the duo landed at this vision of themselves through experimentation.
Ximya defers to FRNK, whose music is intrinsically as visual as it is auditory. It does take him a moment to actually consider the question — more self-reflection, more laughter at the need to actually dig past “now, do” aspect of their music to find its source. “We didn’t set on a certain style from the beginning. It was more as we went along. I don’t think it was an experimental process because the style itself that we’re doing is commonly found…” He trails off as he continues to try to really define their creative process. There’s humor in the fact that some things are just hard to describe.
After a few more moments, refocusing the question to consider what it is about their approach to the style that makes them so different, and further contemplation, Ximya offers, “I think I didn’t look closely into how the American audience think[s] about us. But for the Korean audience, the music is very straightforward, and the lyrics [are] very ’90s.”
Revisiting FRNK’s own observations about the style, he says, “I think how the style was made was the marriage between us, how we came together and made music. If I was making music by myself, without Ximya, then something not that experimental might have come out.”
Musical Disconnect
This notion that their music taps into a style that’s already been explored really downplays the nuance of XXX’s overall aesthetic. There’s truly something unique in their musical perspective that people connect with. The fact that this translates better for a Western audience sort of rankles for Ximya. From the beginning, they’ve always wanted to have an impact in Korea. Of course with the expansion of Korean music visibility in the States, recognition and appreciation was inevitable. But as I’m sure with any artist, you want to make it at home. So what exactly is it that appeals to the American audience that perhaps Korean audiences are missing?
“Um…” Again, calculated. Ximya speaks with purpose, so his words carry weight. “I think [the] American audience is more open to new stuff that they don’t understand. But for the Korean audience, you kind of have to feed them and explain it to them why this music is, ‘blah blah blah.’ But since FRNK and I don’t like to explain stuff, I guess that’s why. Because if we wanted to, we could have made more specific music videos and more specific PRs to explain why this happened and this happened, but the label and we both don’t want that.”
This goes back to our very first conversation. Ximya pointed out that Korean audiences were turned off by the duo’s aggressiveness. If the course of their success is any indication, much of that hasn’t changed.
Ximya doesn’t hesitate. “For this project we definitely… we dumbed it down.” In response to whether it was for Language or Second Language, he says “Both.
“Because for Language, it’s way harder to understand than the first EP we did. But since it’s way harder, they give up on understanding, which makes it easier for them to listen to it. And for Second Language, you can actually see it’s actually dumbed down.”
It’s an astute and honest critique of the work itself. It’s something I noted when listening to Second Language shortly after experiencing the brash ballsiness of its predecessor.
“Fuck All That”
“This is really funny because, back home they like Second Language more.” This obviously points to just how disparate in musical tastes audiences in Korea and the States are. It’s not out of the box to assume FRNK and Ximya created the set of albums with intent. After all, these are the guys who very blatantly said they were making music the way they wanted to without caring about who really got it. A “Fuck Y’all” attitude that endeared them to me instantly.
“Language was more ‘Fuck all that.’ Then Second Language was more ‘Okay, now I have no anger.’ Kind of like if a couple has a fight.” He pauses for a moment to let the image settle, and laughter erupts from the accuracy of the comparison. “There’s heat and there’s anger. That’s Language. Then Second Language is more, after the fight, all burnt out, and you just order pizza.”
“Language is you getting it all out, and Second Language is you saying, ‘I’m done with anger.’” It’s a perfect observation on Allie’s part, one that makes Ximya nod in instant agreement. So with the words already said, the anger subsiding, what exactly was the impetus for the album’s title?
“So the first track that we ever made for this project was called ‘Language.’ And the label really liked the concept. We actually wanted it to be…” It takes Ximya a moment. There are some concepts in the scope of “language” that are harder to define. In this case the idea of a “pre-album,” “A ‘Zero-th Album,’ something like that. Pre-first album.” We laugh as we continue to define this sort of “pre” space (their manager at one point saying, “Z-Album”). “We wanted to keep it really simple and minimal, but I guess naming it Language and Second Language might have helped the album go further in the States. Since English is actually the second language, so… I guess.”
It’s no surprise that when deciding which of their tracks from Language are their favorites that they have a hard time really narrowing it down. Ximya decides on the opening track “18G 1517” while FRNK just chooses every song.
The Truth They Don’t Want to Hear
As FRNK has such a deep affection for the aural aesthetic of the album, it’s only fitting we revisit something he said in our first conversation about his own musical future. About his music being “Just FRNK.” Now that he’s had time to let that concept sit, one has to wonder exactly what that means.
“XXX is more of expressing my emotions on a one-way street. Not being a conversationalist, just one way, pouring down my feelings. Not that I’m very good at it at this point, but I’m going to try to converse with others to try to share feelings with others. So I am aiming for a two-way street that everyone can enjoy. Like K-pop.”
We share a laugh. Honestly, nobody wants to see them go that far left, but he makes a valid point. Having worked with SM artists in the past, his perspective might err on the side of making more “approachable” music for the sake of appealing to a wider audience.
Conversely, Ximya has always had in his mind a desire to create lyrics that will shake the tables. Saying things that maybe the general public isn’t ready to hear.
“We were in New York, before we came here. In our label there’s a guy named Erick Oh. He’s an animator, and he worked at Pixar. He invited us to this film festival where they made animations for children. We weren’t children, but we went and watched several short films. The introduction to this festival, this kid says, ‘Thank you for inviting us to this film festival. This film festival teaches us the truth.’” Even after some time has passed, there’s still a tint of awe coloring Ximya’s voice.
“That’s not even imaginable back home,” he says. “Back home I think grownups don’t ever teach their children what the truth is and what society really is. They really just sugarcoat everything. At the film festival I was really shocked. The films themselves were actually really dark and very twisted.
“I don’t want to degrade music back home,” he rushes to clarify, ever the diplomat. “For me, I think music produced in the States has more depth and more to talk about, when back home everything is just so simple and so direct. I guess the truth I want to talk about is how there’s too much manipulation. Everything is kind of fake. And everything’s coded. There’s a big bubble forming, and nobody is trying to pop it.”
9 to 1
This lends itself to a question that many artists have to grapple with. How much is music and entertainment meant to be a vehicle for social change?
“I guess 50/50?” Ximya says, a bit of his own question in the answer. “Back home it’s 9 to 1: entertainment 9, and us” — he indicates him and FRNK — “is the 1. So let’s say if you attend Show Me the Money (SMTM), audition program for hip-hop back home, you earn like a hundred thousand a year. It should be for ‘us,’ for the ‘1s,’ to also earn a hundred thousand per year doing different things. We need entertainment, we need something to learn, but this balance isn’t even close.”
It’s interesting to note, then, what kind of music appeals to them in this climate of the imbalance between entertainment and social awareness.
“For me,” Ximya says, “nowadays I listen to music that has space to think. So I don’t listen to hip-hop. I listen to R&B. Actually, FRNK put me onto this artist called Puma Blue.” It’s fitting, just as Ximya and FRNK’s appreciation of Clarence Clarity, that they’d find kindred spirits with Puma Blue.
That “space to think,” broader dimensions to really understand the world around them, seems to inform their own music. The group itself seems much like a canvas waiting for the brushstrokes of their respective influences — film, music, life. They take these inspirations on to who they are and incorporate them into their sound. That might be the mystery of why their work appeals so much to audiences in the States. Because XXX is not one thing. They’re an entire landscape of sounds and influences. But as we’ve seen, that doesn’t necessarily translate to appreciation in Korea, where hip-hop has experienced an enormous boom in popularity. What’s it going to take for the audiences clamoring for more hip-hop to really take XXX on?
“When we die,” Ximya says, after a sly grimace and intake of breath. “We are the van Gogh of Korean hip-hop.”
Until We Meet Again
As our conversation comes to an end, we get back to what seems to be a focal point: the audience. What is it XXX want audiences to take away from their time at SXSW?
“I just want them to enjoy the show, since my stage manner is not that great. So if they could really just enjoy the show, then they could think whatever they want. If it’s out of my sight, it’s out of my mind.”
As ever, Ximya is gracious, thanking Pitchfork, HypeBeast, and HiphopKR for the opportunities. As we go our separate ways I’m again filled with an overwhelming amount of pride. These men have taken their sound to another level, breathing and living more in this creative space where they express themselves more freely but also take more care while doing so. The future can only yield more success for them.
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[icon type=”apple”] [icon type=”facebook-square”] [icon type=”instagram”] [icon type=”soundcloud”] [icon type=”spotify”]Interview conducted by Cy, Allie
Transcribed by Allie
Written by Cy
Edited by Lena
What a thoughtful and pensive conversation. Thank you for this.