There’s music playing. “Are you in your car?” I ask as the song fades.
“Oh! No, sorry. I’m in the studio right now.”
“You’ve been busy.”
“I think so, yeah. Just working on my next album. That’s all.”
As always, Samuel Seo is understated. He has been far busier than he lets on. Particularly the last third of the year. With the release of his latest EP, “UNITY II,” he’s been making his promotional rounds. Never mind the fact he’s holding down two radio gigs. (Tuesdays with Sam Carter, formerly of Lunafly, on his radio show “Super K-pop,” a segment called “Oh My Idol”; on Fridays on TBS’s “Men on Air” with hosts Greg and Hee-jun.)
“I’m just trying to keep busy,” he says.
The mood is subdued at first. Seo by nature, while relatively jovial, doesn’t feel the need to be “on.” He is comfortable enough in this space to express himself honestly without the pretense of a performance. As it was last year, this candor allows him to say exactly what he means without the fuss of sparing anyone’s feelings.
Samuel Seo Keeps His Word
“The thing is, I’m the one who’s [changing music] in Korea. So it’s gonna happen in the next 10 years.” That’s what he said to me last year. A bold statement, to be sure. But with his most recent release, UNITY II, Seo makes good on his claims. Practically creating the neo-soul subgenre in Korea. Unsurprisingly, he agrees.
“It’s just the beginning of my entire plan,” he begins. “But I’m still on the same idea of changing this culture. Back in the ’90s when neo soul first came out in the States people didn’t like the term. There’s nothing new about this. It’s just new soul. But the thing about neo soul in Korea, they kind of get it in the wrong way I believe,” he continues. “It’s not about those fancy runs or fancy choruses, it’s about soul. It’s based in soul music. So I really focused on how to touch people’s soul.”
Make no mistake, this journey to shifting the landscape of Korean music came with a great deal of searching. Soul searching, deep diving into the history of the music he wanted to explore. Searching within himself to find the essence of what it is that he wants to do with his music. With his life. Seo is the consummate student of music. Just in the year between “The Misfit” and “UNITY II,” he’s elevated himself to something beyond what he even could’ve imagined.
Samuel Seo — Soul Education
None of this is by accident. In fact, Seo has become more intentional about everything he’s done as of late. Working to stamp his place in music history with purpose. This man is smart and he’s calculated. He’s unafraid to gather those around him who know more than him. Have more experience. If his work with the UNITY series is any indication, he revels in the ability to relate to other artists and like-minded spirits to further elevate himself as an artist.
The idea of the UNITY series is equal parts inspiration and serendipity. He’s told the story of meeting an old Rasta when he visited Austin, TX in 2016 for SXSW. The gentleman introduced himself by grabbing Seo’s hand and saying “Love, peace, and unity.”
“We started jamming until the next morning. All the instrument players, all the vocalists from around the town gathered into that house. We just started jamming, eating, And that experience was so special to me because it didn’t really occur to me.” There’s a hearty bit of awe in his voice. A memory that’s as visceral as when it first happened. “If you’re stuck in Korea as a musician, what happens is after a certain point music becomes your job. It’s not something you can really enjoy. I still really wanna enjoy it, but it didn’t really feel like I was enjoying music back then. But after I experienced that jam session, everything just changed. This is what the word ‘unity’ gave me.”
A True Mentor
Prior to this latest release, he’d have weekly conversations with his “Men On Air” cohost Greg about the state of R&B and soul music. Specifically the seeming downward trend of vocalists in the genre.
“Me and him, we’ve talked a lot about soul music this year,” he begins. His voice certainly more animated. “He taught me a lot on as a Korean how I should transform or translate the traditional soul into Korean. Him and I don’t really agree on how soul or R&B or even neo soul or those related genres are flowing nowadays in other countries. I really like talking about these topics with him.
“Him and I, we always talk about soul music,” he continues. “It’s soul music because it touches your soul. It talks about the deeper inner side of you. Not just because of those fancy runs or those show-off skills. But since we are living in the system that requires all that fancy stuff over the basic root of that genre, we have to admit we have to work on more skills. But we don’t want this genre to go sideways.”
It’s a sentiment we share. When I was growing up, the benchmark for melismatic singing was Brandy. (In fact, the newer generation has taken to calling her the “Vocal Bible.”) It wasn’t as rampant and wasn’t the overwhelming indicator of a skilled singer as it is now.
These talks extend far beyond the scope of debates and conversations about the generational peaks and valleys of the genre he loves. In Greg, Seo has found a true mentor. Someone who engages his intellect and forces him to reevaluate his own musical execution. Part of what made UNITY II such a masterpiece is Seo’s evolution as an artist. It’s in the subtlety of the album. The moments of quiet. “I’m studying traditional Korean music nowadays,” he says. “I’m trying to dig deeper to my roots.”
An Easter Egg
All of this shows in the way UNITY II is constructed. His desire to illustrate what neo soul would actually look like coming from Korea. How a Korean artist might interpret the genre and fit it into the grander scheme of Korea’s musical landscape. Song “Cloud” is a testament to this. The use of janggu (a Korean percussion instrument) is used with intention. To further marry Korean traditional sound with Black music. As I suspected, the instrument also does the work of mimicking African rhythms. “That’s like a little Easter egg in a game,” he says, a bit of a secret in the tone of his voice.
“I thought that in order to show people around the world how neo soul changes when a Korean does it, I decided to change the format a little bit. Instead of just using the traditional rhythm, I tried to add more Korean traditional rhythm, especially on ‘Cloud.’
“My fourth album is going to be based more on the traditional side of it,” he continues. “I’m trying to find a way to combine those Korean traditional rhythms. Not talking about the melodic instruments, only the rhythm. I’m trying to combine those together and show people this is how a Korean translates neo soul.”
The Vocal Stylings of Samuel Seo
It’s not just the very intentional composition. Seo’s vocal technicality has seen a drastic improvement just from “The Misfit” to now. His vocal stacking is as impressive as ever. However, as he admits, in his previous work he tried to force the issue.
“Normally, I would stack like 20 or 30 tracks. But this time instead I just tried to add as minimal as possible. I think the main reason behind it is because of my gear. Even when I was working on ‘The Misfit’ album, I didn’t know how to fill all those frequency ranges. So back then, all I could think was in order to fill all these frequencies, I have to stack up as many vocals as possible, but I was just thinking wrong. I was sponsored by Universal Audio this time. They just leased their gear to me. When I first used the gear, I realized I didn’t need as many vocal stacks to create the fullness in a track.
“Greg worked so hard to change me,” he says with a laugh. “I mean, me and him met a couple times a week over a few months. And literally, he tried to guide me to a better me. There was just something special about him,” he says with reverence. “I had this little feeling that he would be a really good teacher to me. He turned out to be a great one.”
“I am a fan”
It shows in Seo’s choice of singles. The aforementioned “Cloud” is an interesting choice for a lead single (the first offered in preparation for UNITY II’s eventual release). The sparseness of it, the free jazz of Kim Oki. The entire composition and lack of actual lyrical content. Not a traditional first peek at an album at all. Even more interesting is his decision to release “Cycle” as the second single.
“I think I adapted the traditional Roy Ayers vibe into Korean,” Seo says casually. “I think I successfully transformed that into modern Korean-ish style. Tried to put as much Roy Ayers vibe into the music by putting all those vibraphones.”
The surprise shouldn’t be this profound from me. Very few artists born after 1986 know anything about Roy Ayers. Let alone people from a country whose population relies so heavily on what’s trending. Roy Ayers is by no means a pop star. A vibraphonist who speaks of Black liberation and revolution. So while it shouldn’t surprise me that Seo is a fan of his music, it does.
“I mean, before speaking about the music we have to talk about the fan culture as well,” he says with passion. “I know what a fan is because I was, I am, and I will be a fanboy of D’Angelo and Roy Ayers. In order to pay them respect, especially as a musician, you need to know how to express your respect towards them through your music. Not just by copying it, but transforming it.”
A Lifelong Dream
The man still has visions of one day working for Motown Records. “What are you talking about,” he exclaims. “That’s my lifelong dream.” Even that has a hand in the way UNITY II was constructed. The multi-instrumentalist took a step back from actually playing on the album. He was focused on the production side of the project, dedicating as much time to that as the lyrical and vocal makeup of the EP.
“My goal is to become a producer for Motown,” he says. “Even though I’m not sure that can become a reality, I still think I should be prepared when I get there. It’s about time I start my career as a producer.”
His desire to expand to Western markets isn’t a grab for fame or even a means to stroke his own ego. As he mentioned in our conversation last year, he yearns to be in the company of those who make music for a broader purpose. This same vision leads him to want to work with Peanut Butter Wolf and his Stones Throw Records. Not for nothing, Stones Throw is known for digging deep in the record crates for those artists and sounds people have most likely missed. Seo would be a gem in their roster. Though, according to Seo, the company has looked into a few artists from Korea, they overlooked him. It’s a fact that rankles. But he’s still intent on sending the label some of his beats.
Samuel Seo, Producer
However, Seo doesn’t wallow, doesn’t consider anything a setback. If something bothers him, if the universe presents him with a difficult situation (COVID-19, for instance), he gets to work. He’s certainly done much of that this year. Multiple collaborations, numerous producing credits.
“I started selling my music this year,” he says. “Like to SKY-HI with Avex Entertainment in Japan, OnlyOneOf, a Korean K-pop group that just made their debut. Other guys are booked. But the thing about selling music to other artists or labels…”
He pauses. A common sign that he’s considering his next words. Trying to get exactly what he wants to say out. “They do care about how the music was made, but I don’t think they consider the spiritual side of it or the root of it. So by doing my music deeper and putting more Korean elements to it, I’d like to change all the habits of the Korean music industry.”
Samuel Seo’s Inner Peace
Even with the projects he’s done this year, Seo admits beyond his efforts on UNITY II everything else was just a bit of fun. The care he took with UNITY II is obvious. However, there’s a great deal of peacefulness in the project. As if he’s fully come into his own musically and knows it.
“Due to that virus I had so much time to think about myself and dig deeper inside my inner me. There, I came to this conclusion that all those stressful thoughts I’d been having up to 2019 were 99 percent useless, meaningless. It was just a waste of time. I came to a certain point where I thought inner peace should be first before making music.”
That same inner peace has permeated everything he’s done this year. I mention the “D I A L” EP with that same understanding in mind. “‘D I A L’… um… yeah.” Trust me, I can hear the spaces between each letter in his tone. It’s an odd thing, this sound he makes when talking about his releases this year.
“You know how I am,” he says without the least bit of sarcasm. “You know my personality and how I usually think about my former music. UNITY II is the best album I’ve put out so far, and I’m pretty sure ‘D I A L’ is not [up there]. It was just for fun, I’d say. Just getting to know more people, getting to work with other vocalists, other instrumentalists. It was more of me having fun than trying to achieve something next level.”
Self-Critical
Seo is nothing if not critical of his older work. “Those processes made me who I am,” he says emphatically. “But… If I could take me back to 2019 with the things I know and the things I have right now, I could have come up with a way better album than ‘The Misfit.’ That’s something I kind of regret, I guess.” It’s a quiet admission. Borderline self-deprecation.
Seo doesn’t care to perform his older songs either. “After I released ‘UNITY II,’ everything was changed. The way I sing, the way I want my band to perform. It’s just so different from how I’ve been doing my music so far. I just wanna start this whole thing over again.”
In an interview about UNITY II he says of track “G O Y O” he wishes he’d written it with the same maturity of “Cycle.” “Because the message of ‘G O Y O’ is the thing that I always tell other people. We are all equal. There’s nothing special about owning some special material. We don’t have to be materialistic at all. All those messages I say to others, that was the time I wasn’t ready to express it fully. Back then I was only 25, 24 international age, so if I could remake that album over again, it would have been better than that.”
He has the same reaction when I mention his work on Chancellor’s ambitious “Automatic Remix.”
“This is the dilemma I have to go through, right,” he says following a rueful chuckle. “It’s not on the same path as what I’m on. Definitely not the same goal. The thing about the track is, the attempt to put 30 artists in a song has never happened before. So I kinda took the chance to participate in that special occasion. But I still thought, what if it was expressed more in our way. You get it, right?” Seo’s entire goal is to be true to himself. He is a Korean man. There’s no reason to try to change that to force a connection with Black culture that just isn’t there.
Worldwide Underdog
But as he made it a point to say last year, he wouldn’t do it if he didn’t enjoy it. If it’s not fun for him, there’s no point. That being said, Seo isn’t blind to his role in Korea’s music industry. He’s a musician’s musician, a man who makes music for those who are fans of music. But he’s acutely aware that he’s not elevated beyond that as far as notoriety (particularly in his home country). He posed the question to some colleagues of his during a documentary special through Kyejeol Live, “What is keeping me from being a superstar?”
“The reason I said that is because the way I think, other musicians these days don’t really think that way. I want people to hear me out. But if I say out loud the things I think now, it’s just a bunch of bullshit to them because I’m just a nameless musician from Seoul to most people.”
Anyone with eyes on how the Korean music industry moves can tell you exactly why Seo is still where he is. Quite frankly, he’s not an “idol.” Those artists making waves in the Western markets all have a certain look to them. To put it bluntly, if you’re not BTS , NCT, EXO or any of their ilk, you’re fighting an uphill battle for recognition. There are even fewer R&B artists from Korea who have managed to get that kind of attention. Seo’s music is challenging for most. There’s a certain prettiness to it, but only if a) you’ve known him for the 10 years he’s actually been in the industry, or b) you understand where he’s coming from. UNITY II got its fair share of complaints. Mostly from those who can’t understand why he won’t submit to the whims of a largely homogenous industry.
“Most people when they listened to my latest album, they said, ‘Wow, this music is way too hard for me to listen to. What is this? Why don’t you write more commercial music so more people can listen to it? Just write about love, use more simple chord progressions.’ Especially when it comes to the melody.” On the one hand it is hard to believe. On the other, the actual appreciation of music isn’t exactly what sells music.
Why I Do It
This is, of course, why he does what he does.
“I’m totally fine with that,” he says earnestly. “But they should be more openminded towards that, towards new music. I just want to open up their minds more to give them more choice when it comes to listening to music as a musician. That is my duty that I’m working on.” His is a sound of inevitability, as if resigned to his task as an artist. But this is the path he’s chosen, and he accepts it.
“The reason I really wanna be famous is not about the money and all that. It’s about the things I really want to say out loud in order to lead the music industry to a better way.
“My lifetime goal as a musician is to establish a school, and all because of this. Music doesn’t make someone cool. It’s something they should devote their life to. It’s more than just a thing that makes you look cool and makes you rich. It has more meaning to it. To me at least.”
Until We Meet Again
Through all this, though, Samuel is still Samuel. He’s generous with his laugh and his kindness. He gives me a peek into his past as we talk about our shared middle and high school affection for bands like Marilyn Manson and Korn. “For me Slipknot is the one and only best band ever,” he says, the fanboy in him slipping through. He even sings a lyric from Korn’s “Right Now” (video NSFW) with energy and a laugh. He shares with me the music he’s listening to at the moment. Guru’s “Jazzmatazz Vol. 1,” Illa J’s “John Yancey,” The Other Guys’s “Summer in Analog.” “I started listening to the Roots again,” he says. Then, “Oh! The Pharcyde!” He then pulls out Al Green classic “Let’s Stay Together.” As I said: a true student of music.
As our conversation comes to a close I’m struck with just how much of a decent guy he is. Honestly and truly. He’s incredibly humble, but he knows exactly who he is. The dynamic makes him one of the most self-aware artists I’ve ever spoken with.
One year to the day of our first conversation, Samuel Seo comes to me reflective. As he admitted this time around, the pandemic has made him more introspective. More prone to thinking about what it is he truly wants as a musician.
At this point it has become cliché for me to say how much I respect and admire Samuel Seo. However, his actual impact on Korean music cannot be overstated. I am a firm believer in giving people their roses while they are still with us. As such, I will continue to sing Samuel Seo’s praises until I can no longer speak.
Dream on till your dream comes true!
I have to say, this was the best article I’ve read about Samuel
UNUTY II on repeat. By far the deepest music I’ve listened from SS. Cycle like a friend that needs no explanation, getting me through my hard times. Was surprised by Gone’s style. So hard to find the lyrics in English! I’m so curious why Cloud was put last, I love it.
Samuel, you spread light 고마워