exclusive interview

Joe Lee, known more commonly as LATE, has been making music for the past few years, doing the work to shape what’s become a signature genre-bending blend of lo-fi, indie, and hip-hop. We took some time to catch up and explore his plans for the future.

At KCON LA 2017 I had the opportunity to see an artist I’d never heard before. At that time he was going by the pseudonym As If. I was so moved by his performance, I had to interview him. Joe Lee is one of the most open, most honest artists it’s ever been my pleasure to interview. He doesn’t hold anything back, and much like the way he creates his music, he lays himself bare, unafraid to reveal even the darkest parts of himself.

Fast forward a year later. I find myself on the phone with Joe again, this time to talk about what he’s been up to in the nearly twelve months since we last spoke and delving into what he’s been up to, including the release of his first full body of work, the SHOES EP.

For those who don’t know the man, Joe Lee, known more commonly as LATE, has been making music for the past few years, doing the work to shape what’s become a signature genre-bending blend of lo-fi, indie, and hip-hop. It all begins with what’s a very typical foundation in classical music and jazz.

“I go by the name of LATE. I used to have a crew called Odd Folks, but I’ve now made my brand name into a self label with the current management I’m under right now. I do Korean hip-hop, but my foundation is indie [and] jazz.”

Since I last spoke to him, Lee has had to go throw a few growing pains to get to where he is now. My first encounter with him at KCON LA was as As If, the leader of an intrepid group of up-and-coming rappers called Odd Folks. They had the ambition and energy of Brockhampton with the musical scope of Slum Village (to a lesser degree). However, some eight months later, Odd Folks as they were is no more.

“It was a very sudden incident,” Joe says. “Due to a lot of personal conflict Dr. Mumen, Slez, and Lowie left the group. Currently Dr. Mumen is not doing music. Lowie’s in Korea right now doing his independent music out in Seoul. I haven’t spoken with Slez in a while.”

While there is a bit of sadness coloring his tone, if there’s one thing I can say about Joe, he’s always positive. He sees stained glass where others would just see sand and mud. “I think it was better for all of us,” he says of the split. “After they left the group, it really amplified my career to the next level.

“There was a lot of group conflict. And in a way it was bringing a lot of negativity to our group and our creative mindset. So it was very unhealthy, and we had to make this decision to move forward in life. So they all decided to leave, and I decided to sort of carry the team and start focusing on myself.”

Certainly when a bond like theirs dissolves, it’s not exactly the easiest thing to bounce back from. But certainly there was a level of strain on Joe to try to make the group work, if only to keep that group of creatives visible. He believed so ardently in pushing the group forward, almost to the detriment of his own creativity. “You know, I was trying to bring the group all together, right. And because of that I couldn’t really focus on my music, I had to focus on the group, bringing people up. I have my followers, and Lowie, Dr. Mumen, and Slez didn’t really have solid clout. Not a lot of fans knew who they were. So I had to carry a lot of the team through a lot of the business aspects. I was so focused on exposing them that I couldn’t really focus on myself.”

With this transition came a new beginning, a renewed sense of purpose that has seen Lee dive deep into the business of his career with purpose and intent. “I started focusing on my music, my singles, and what I need to do as an artist. Myself is a product. I need to know how to put myself out there. I need to know how to market myself as a product.”

One would forgive him if it took him some time to get over the blow of losing not only a group that he’d put so much of his effort and soul into, but also friends and a collective of like-minded artists. But Joe is nothing if not the consummate optimist. His outlook is no matter what life happens to bring your way, it’s a chance to learn, to grow, and to better yourself. With the dissolution of the former permutation Odd Folks, he was able to focus all of his attention on his own craft, molding himself into the artist that he wants to be. This also afforded him the opportunity to do more work with producers and artists he admires.

“I know it sounds really messed up, but I was just like, ‘Oh I can start focusing on myself.’” He tries his best to be diplomatic. It’s obvious in the way he slightly hesitates before expressing something like relief at being able to fully flex his own musical muscle instead of having to delegate energy to nourishing his group. “You know, when I started Odd Folks, people knew me as the leader of the group. So after they left, it didn’t really hurt me. I still made the connections by myself, I made a connection with different agencies, different producers, different whoever. I made those connections for them, so when they all left all those connections came to me. It really did amplify my career to the next level.

“I’m going to sign an agreement with Austin (McCracken). He works for Edgar. He has a whole video production team owned by Atlantic Music. Austin is my main videographer. He’s gonna be in charge of my production side, my visual side. And since he works under Edgar, I get all the connections. In a way, Austin is my manager, and Austin’s manager is Edgar.”

At the time of this interview, Lee was working ardently on his music. In the works were eight new singles. “Within those eight tracks, I don’t know if we’re wanna make four, but we wanna make three solid visuals.”

But he’s not satisfied with simply releasing his music to a local audience. Many artists make their music and don’t make it past LA or NYC. Lee’s ambition is what made me fall in love with him in the first place. All that positive energy and the desire to do more, to go for more, are endearing traits to see in an artist, especially one so green in the industry. It’s that green moment right before the dawn of someone’s career that I’m in love with. Seeing artists fully embrace the challenges, pains, and triumphs of that moment is so exciting to see.

“We’re gonna reach out to Asia and see what demographic I connect with. We’re gaining a lot of traction in Europe. So I want to grow my fanbase, and once I have a solid fanbase out in Europe, we’re working on a different marketing strategy. So we’re just going to do it one by one.”

Bold. But that’s just how he works. Joe Lee is nothing if not courageous. It takes balls and a steel-plated exterior to be in the music industry. Trust me, this young man has it in spades.

Along with all that ambition and bravado, however, it’s important to be smart and tactical. As with his music, Lee is meticulous. He has a mind for business that’s quite impressive for an artist. Not many even have the vocabulary to spell out what they want and how they’re going to get it. Of course, this is no surprise. A constant student of his craft, from conception to promotion, Lee took business economics classes for a couple years and applied everything he learned to getting his music the exposure it deserves.

And this is part of the reason why I love talking to him. Lee’s energy is contagious. His entire tone shifts, lightness peppering everything he says, when he starts talking about his music and where he wants to take it. More than just the craft itself, he loves the entire journey, is enamored of the whole process of creating, releasing, and promoting his work. While also his biggest critic, he’s also his biggest fan, and it shows not only in the exponential increase in the quality of his work, but in the way he talks about it–like a child he’s raised and is now letting loose on the world.

“Back then I was releasing short singles, but people didn’t really know my music. But now that my EP’s out, people are finally reaching out. Now that I have that I can build myself up by releasing multiple singles with visuals.

“I’m glad people really mess with my music, though. I was actually caught off guard to see people’s reactions, my fans are doing reaction videos. Even my friends are like, ‘Dude, I play your music in my car, in my dorm, in my office. Everyone was asking, “Who is this guy? Who is this kid? I’ve never heard this kind of sound before.”’ And hearing that from my friends it’s … In a way I was really amazed. Like, wow. People really do mess with my sound. And that triggered it. I need to be more motivated, I need to start making more music because I know that people fuck with me for sure. Like it kind of gave me more confidence than before.”

That confidence is never more apparent than when he released the SHOES EP on March 31. Exploring the album in its entirety, it’s easy to see that he’s broadened his musical scope as far as what he’s already done. Again, he speaks with great fondness of his EP, his baby, the labor of love that saw its origins back when was still signed to Cycadelic Records going by the moniker “Display.”

From the moment the album starts, Lee was determined to let people know exactly where his soul is, where he’s coming from and where he’s going. Opening with a jazz-infused melodic intro is a reference point for where he is. He’s given people an inside look into where his music is going. Ending the album with the lead single “Who Dat Boy” may have been an interesting choice for many, but honestly it makes sense. The album’s opener is Joe Lee introducing himself to his audience. Meanwhile, “Who Dat Boy” takes them back a bit, to where he began his journey.

“People kind of knew me as just a trap artist. And I wanted to bring that trap, grimy side to the new version of me.”

The perfect example of a man coming full circle. He’s surprised I made the connection, but Lee is an open and honest artist. He doesn’t shy away from his past. Rather he wants people to follow him on this adventure of finding who he is as an artist.

Particularly when it comes to “Who Dat Boy,” it’s unavoidable. We had to talk about its inspirations. Obviously Tyler the Creator played a part in influencing both the song’s title and the grimy nature of its production and Lee’s execution.

“When I think of a title track,” he says without hesitation, “I try to find a title that wasn’t used a lot. So it was perfect timing. I was listening to ‘Who Dat Boy’ by Tyler, and I looked up all the videos that related to ‘Who That Boy.’ But I didn’t really find any songs that were titled ‘Who Dat Boy.’ So I knew right then if I title my song ‘Who Dat Boy,’ when they search it, Tyler’s gonna come up, and my name’s gonna come right underneath his. So in a way, it was my way of marketing myself.”

Always thinking about what he’s selling. Always a step ahead in terms of getting his name out there.

“I have to know how to market myself. I’m still learning, gradually learning. But it’s getting better.”

Clearly all his work to bolster his knowledge of how the industry works, how to market himself and his music has paid off. In the past six months, he’s been busy with interviews and appearances, tirelessly promoting himself to expand his reach. Through funds raised on Facebook, his team had enough to shoot the music video for “Who Dat Boy.” It’s clear his visuals made an impact. “Looking at our demographic … It’s the Philippines, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Seoul, and California. I like to see which demographic fucks with my music.”

His enthusiasm is contagious. I can’t help but smile as I talk to him, feel the excitement bubbling in my own gut as he talks about how wide his influence has become. He does hope to make a deeper impact in Korea, but with the work he’s doing in Europe and his audience in East Asia, it’s only a matter of time. “Let’s make it happen!” he exclaims.

But let’s not forget that the most important aspect of reaching a broader audience is creating music that continues to push the artist, challenges him to go for more and better. Of course, this is nothing new for him. His work doesn’t stop when the song’s been recorded, nor does it only begin with the lyrics.

“I spend about two to three hours a day searching for beats,” he admits. “Most of the producers are out of town, but currently I have an executive producer that I work with. His name is Cody Benjamin. But say he’s out of town, I’m not gonna go and search for producers out in LA. Everything’s on the internet. So I spent about two to three hours and found Ocean Beats (producer of “Who Dat Boy”). That really fit with my color. I found Yuki, that really fit with my color.

“Jonathan Sim, I don’t really know him that well, but he used to be part of Odd Folks as well. And that song ‘Grungy Luv’ we made that way before. And that was one of the tracks that I really wanted to release to the public. That really is my color. That’s like a sound … I wanna associate the genre with indie pop.”

As we go through the EP, I can’t help but remember the moment I heard “Star” for the first time. The musical landscape of that track, simple as it was, fit so perfectly with Lee’s vision that I was really blown away.

“MKSB is a K-town producer out in Los Angeles. That beat is not even uploaded on his YouTube channel.

“[That beat] was made two years ago when I was under Cycadelic Records. Recently I was gonna do an EP with this artist named Ashton. But I left the company, so I bought the track exclusive. I left the [company] and I took the track with me. But I didn’t know what to do with this track, and I really wanted to use it. It has that chill, lo-fi vibe. Can’t really get over listening to that, you know? It’s two and a half years old, but it still sounds fresh. I was just thinking I really wanna release this song, but I don’t really know who to feature. But FLANNEL ALBERT came through, and he killed it.”

Indeed. From the moment I heard it I knew “Star” was going to be my favorite track on the EP. Each track has a very distinct flavor, sound, shows a different side of Joe Lee as the artist and the man. However, there was something magical about “Star.” From the production to the collaboration itself, it was a track meant to highlight his vision. Add to that FLANNEL ALBERT’s ferocious verse, it really is an understated masterpiece.

“He really killed it,” he says of Albert. I could hear the smile in his voice. “I told him, my verse, I’m going to make it really floaty, very like bouncy so people will just listen to my flow and be like, ‘Oh shit! Oh shit! Okay.’ But for the second verse, I really want you to make it melodic. I have those two different contrasts.”

Albert confessed that as soon as he got the beat he was so inspired he penned his verse in 15 minutes. “He told me that too, that he wrote that verse in 15 minutes.” The effervescence that’s been prevalent throughout our conversation reaches a peak here. He’s obviously proud of the track and the work that went into it. “He just knew, once he heard the beat he was like, ‘Okay, this is it. This is fuckin’ it, yeah.’”

Joe speaks as fondly of his friendship with Albert as he does of his own music. Since then, the two have collaborated a couple more times and really established a musical bond that seems stronger than ever.

Then we get back to the business of what it means to actually release a debut album. After all, it’s wonderful to create the thing, but understanding the ins and outs of an industry oversaturated with new artists is a skill in and of itself. Again, Joe reveals just how tactical his approach is when it comes to his music.

“I didn’t want to make a full album because I’m just starting. I’m an independent artist, so when I release an album, I don’t think a lot of people are gonna sit down and listen to a full album. We’re living in a generation where we’re moving at a fast pace. If you’re not a big artist like Cardi B, Migos, Kendrick, or Drake, no one’s really gonna sit down and listen to your album. So I realized, ‘Okay, let’s make a smaller version of it, and have like four to five tracks.’ So I kind of thought of my EP … Do you know Costco by any chance?”

The question throws me a bit. But as he reveals, the metaphor is apt.

“I kind of used that reference. My EP’s sort of like a combo package. It’s one thing, but it’s got a lot of different flavors. And I really wanted to show my true color, my foundation of music to people. Know that this is my foundation, know that this is my roots. But at the same time whatever I’m going to release after is going to be very versatile. Very different. But I just wanted people to hear my true roots. And it worked out. It was crazy to see people’s reactions. Like people’s reactions made me feel like, ‘Oh shit! People really do mess with my sound. People really do mess with my roots and my color.’”

Since the release of SHOES, Joe’s maintained a steady release of singles to allow fans and newcomers to witness his passion for his craft. “I have four tracks that I’m going to upload to my SoundCloud. I just wanted to show people that I’m still making music, that I’m still experimenting with my sound.”

The first of these latest releases is “She’s the Season.” He speaks of the track with a bit of a chuckle, perhaps in light of the lyrical content of the track. “‘She’s the Season’ is kind of like an experiment track,” he admits of the song’s overall composition. “We have another song called ‘Running Backward.’ That’s another experimental track. And then we have another song called ‘420.’ That’s another experimental track. Then we have another song called ‘Period.’ That’s another experimental track. So people can see what I’m working on and what I’m trying to do, but it’s not like my whole color.

“The eight singles that I’m putting out are my eight exclusive, exclusive singles where I’m going to have visuals and it’s gonna be up on Spotify, Tidal, Amazon, all those music platforms. But in a way, I just wanted to show my audience that I’m making music every day, every day. It might not be the most mainstream music, but still I’m making music to show people that I’m doing shit.”

There’s nothing more exciting than watching the progression of an artist you’ve come to really respect for his craft and count as a friend. Joe’s future is incredibly bright, more collaborations with bigger names and an endless list of ideas and projects lining his path to making 2018 the year of LATE LEE.

“I’m working on a big project with BIG BANANA Beats,” he reveals. As of the publication of this interview, Joe and BIG BANANA have completed two tracks together. “Just the fact that it’s produced by BIG BANANA Beats, we’re gonna get a lot of traction. And I think the songs we’ve come up with are very catchy,” he muses before he launches into an impromptu performance of the first single’s melody. More of that utterly infectious effervescence. His boundless excitement alone is enough make anyone giddy with anticipation. “The music video’s done by Austin McCracken, it’s gonna be a high-quality video. We’re actually gonna fly out to London for it.”

“I actually asked if FLANNEL could feature on it with me.” As ambitious as he is, however, he’s got a generous streak that could put most to shame. His work as the leader of Odd Folks is indication of that. “You know I’m trying to grow together. I’m not trying to be selfish. If you’re talented and you fuck with my color and I fuck with your color, I’ll try to flow with you.”

With as many people as he’s worked with, it must be a boost to his ego to know that so many people are ready to work with him. But he admits to me that there are moments even now where doubt clouds his vision. His voice lowers a bit, as if he’s combatting his insecurities as we speak.

“Sometimes I do have doubts, but when I do I try to get away from it. I try to do something else to avoid all my doubts. But sometimes like I’m fighting some triggers. Like if I don’t get a lot of views on my Instastory one night, I’ll be in this moody vibe like, ‘Oh shit. Not a lot of people are watching my stuff.’ Or if I don’t get enough likes, I’ll sorta feel some type of way. I don’t know, it’s a really weird thing for me to say, talking about ‘likes’ and ‘views.’ But sometimes it does.”

Sign of the times, my friend. We live in a society completely wrapped up in instant gratification, quick flashes of fame to sort of fill a void left behind from feeling insignificant or unseen. This leads to a conversation about the British Netflix original show Black Mirror. In particular the episode entitled “Nosedive,” wherein people’s interactions on social media are graded and determine their actual station in life. Sounds a bit too real for comfort. “You can’t really see it,” he says, “but it’s happening.”

Even in the midst of the moments of uncertainty, Joe continues to push forward, continues to reach for the stars. A huge part of his growth process has been working with the artists he has, working with all these like minds who constantly push him to stretch his creativity further than he ever had.

“Because I’m working a lot of different creatives, in a way I’m expanding my horizons. I’m learning new things about myself, who I am as an artist. It’s a way to find my identity as an artist and as a human being. It’s really positive. That’s the most rewarding part about this whole journey. Slowly I’m finding my identity. As Joe and as LATE.”

This is has obviously shaped his music immensely, taken it from brash explorations of a trap rapper to the artist who I’m speaking to on the phone.

“My current inspiration is the people I’m surrounding myself with right now,” he says. His tone becomes serious, as if he’s putting blessings in the universe to those who’ve been around him the most, pushing him, propelling him forward. “They work hard, every day they want to get something done. Every day they want to put what they have out to the public. Every day they’re a motivation for me.” Joe’s not one for over-philosophical musings about masters of the craft. He is as he’s always been: honest, raw, unapologetic. The same goes for showing his gratitude for those who’ve been there for him. “It’s the people I’m with right now, the people who believed in my music, people who’ve pushed my music.

“To hear that motivation every day, oh shit there’s people out there who’s fuckin’ with the music and trying to push it. It boosts my confidence.”

The speed at which he’s started to make his mark on the music world seems lightning fast. From KCON LA 2017 to this very moment, he’s released an EP, several singles and music videos, had numerous interviews, and been able to work with artists FLANNEL ALBERT, BIG BANANA Beats, and Cody Benjamin. It can only go up from here.

“My first album was really indie sounding, right? All my singles that I’m putting out are very … in a way they’re mainstream. But they really have that indie hip-hop color to it. I’m trying to expand my horizons to reach out to more and different demographics. In music you have to be versatile, and I want to be a versatile artist. I can come up with a lot of different sounds. All these singles that I’m coming out with they really have that pop, indie hip-hop sound I was showing to people.

“Those six singles I made with Cody Benjamin have a Western sound. Has that Tory Lanez, Bryson Tiller vibe. A lot of baby-making music. And then with BIG BANANA Beats, those two tracks I’m coming out with FLANNEL ALBERT are very upbeat, very bubbly, have that future bass sound. We’re gearing toward a lot of the female audience. It has an Asian vibe, like Asians back home. Yeah, I’m trying to fuck with different demographics.”

Here we come to another thing I love about him: that arrogant laugh of his. It’s mostly for show, the banter between friends that keeps conversation light. It’s in full force during this interview, but it ratchets up a notch when he regales me with his successes. He’s modest for sure, evidenced by the barrage of thank-yous he sends my way when I express any type of pride for him–and let’s be clear, I’m incredibly proud of this young man–and especially when he speaks of the people who’ve helped push him and his career. But he knows how to get a little cheeky when he’s feelin’ himself.

He’s certainly unafraid to flex his vision. If you take nothing else away from this interview, know that his ambition is enormous. Joe has always had an idea to shake up the Korean rap scene with his brand of jazz-infused hip-hop.

“First person who tried to merge indie and K-hip-hop or hip-hop together,” he says to the question of what he wants people to associate with his sound. “I want to be that first person that people actually see doing that. During our first interview, I explained that people tend to associate indie music as indie music and hip-hop as hip-hop. I’m just thinking like why can’t people just merge those two sounds and create a bridge and come up with this new genre called indie hip-hop? I want people to know me as that artist: indie hip-hop artist.”

A lofty goal, but it’s one I have no doubt Joe will grind the pavement to make come to fruition. Lofty, too, are his dreams of collaborating with some of the most innovative artists making waves in Korea in both hip-hop and R&B. When I mention I have dreams of him working with producer Millic, I can almost hear the stars in his eyes when he considers the idea.

“That would be awesome to be working with Millic.” Joe’s voice gets breathy when he’s hit with either inspiration or latches on to another goal to attain. I hear that same awe-stricken wistfulness when I mention Millic. “He does make a lot of good bangers. I feel working with him would expand my horizons even farther.”

As we talk more about the fanxychild and clube$kimo collectives (“I love Miso,” he says with great affection), it brings up another question of who he’s always wanted to collaborate with.

“I want to work with offonoff,” he says almost before I can even get the question out of my mouth. “I’m in love with their music. Hands-down some of the best songwriters. Notice me, senpai!” he implores, followed quickly by a bout of heavy laughter. “I fucks with them so hard”

As always, I lament that our conversation has to come to an end. However, I couldn’t be prouder of this young artist who in just over eight months has managed to completely revolutionize his own sound. Before we hang up, making promises of meeting up for drinks at next year’s SXSW (a plan thwarted by the sudden upheaval of his universe), he leaves me with his plans for his future.

“This summer’s gonna be my blow-up months between June and August. I’ll really be putting out music. And this year I’m performing at KCON LA and KCON NY. So I know this summer’s just gonna be my months. And 2018 is gonna be my year where I really put my name out there in public, let people know who I am as an artist.”

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Edited by Lena